Sujet [News] [MusikMesse] SSL X-Desk
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SSL brandit une nouvelle console analogique au format réduit.Artsy Moods
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tazzrecord
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VladDrac
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Artsy Moods
272
Posteur·euse AFfamé·e
Artsy Moods
272
Posteur·euse AFfamé·e
tazzrecord
1789
AFicionado·a
Artsy Moods
272
Posteur·euse AFfamé·e
Artsy Moods
272
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Des details qui peuvent fair ela différence à un certain niveau, pour peu d'etre capable de mixer à ce niveau! (pas encore mon cas, mais je désespère pas! 
)
)https://linktr.ee/ArtsyMoods
https://instagram.com/artsymoods/ https://twitter.com/ArtsyMoods https://www.facebook.com/ArtsyMoods/
Artsy Moods
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En suivant des discussion sur gearslutz, je suis tombé sur un avis de "jindrich", malheureusement c'est en anglais et j'ai grave la flemme de traduire tout ça. Voila donc un exemple de l'utilité de la x-desk au max de ces capacités, qui comme on l'a dit au-dessus n'est pas forcement pour tout le monde (=€35k 
bin oui quand meme!):
Hi-End equipping and working the SSL X-Desk (LONG post, get some Weissbier!)
"Stammtisch" is a german word that defines a group of people that (often regularily) get together in a pub to discuss about certain matters, usually around some sort of beer.
Just after Musikmesse 2009, one of such "Stammtisch" took place by a group of audio engineers, where, among other topics, a discussion about SSL's new mini-mixer took prominent protagonism. Many rounds of Franziskaner Weissbier helped the meeting to reach unparalelled levels of deepness .
What follows is most of what was talked over on that evening about that particular matter.
--------------------
The Challenge
--------------------
With SSL bringing the essential basics of its Superanalogue consoles into the small new X-Desk, introduced at this year's Messe, there was the question whether a "mini hi-end studio" could be built around it, for both tracking, overdubbing and mixing duties, for any genre of music, from Hip-Hop to classical.
Trying to reach that goal around such an small mixer brough to the table discussions about old school recording methods vs DAWs, moving faders vs VCAs, ITB vs OTB... etc. Needless to say, more Franziskaner was soon required ;-P
In the end it was decided as a starting point that to properly complement the X-Desk's eight primary channels in such a hi-end fashion, the right thing would be to include 8 compressors and 8 EQs, as in a big gun SSL/Neve, plus a bus compressor and some FX+Reverbs. Then all agreed that no less than 10 mics would typically be required to track a band/ensemble, so 10 was the round number of preamps to be added to the party. Some DIs should also be included in the package.
-------------
The Gear
-------------
As the intention was to build a "mini hi-end studio", the usual suspects one finds at any facility had to be included: API, 1073/84s, GML Pres+EQs, SSL's bus compressor and crunchy E EQs and comps, 1176s, distressors, LA2A, LA3As, Pultec, EMTs, 480L, H3000s, etc, etc.
The above would have required (at the amount of 10pre+8comp+8eq+fx+bus comp) around €75,000 in outboard alone, which looked a little too much, or even ridiculous, to mate a €2k mixer (not that the SSL couldn't handle it, just that the price gap in outboard_vs_mixer was too big), so it was decided to rather find those pieces that most closely resemble the afformentioned units and offer the most flexibility and best price/features/quality ratio. Consequently, this stuff was chosen by the participants (picture is at the bottom):
-Aurora GTQ2: very close to a 1073 with a nice tracking EQ. Two ch for less than a single Neve.
-Portico 5032s: the preamp on this affordable unit does the clean GML sorta well and it's close to the old Neve when in silk mode. The EQ is not fully parametric but it's good enough to precisely sculpt mids.
-API 3124+mb: legendary API pres and a very useful summing, which will help with busing at mix time. No need to look further.
-SSL XRACK: the real deal, and actually susprinsingly affordable modules compared to anything else on the market. Recallability comes very handy.
-Buzz SOC 1.1: sort of two LA3A with selectable ratio, attack and release. Quite affordable unit too. Euphonic sounding but transparent enough to compress a classical ensemble on the bus.
-Eventide boxes: for just €400 a piece one gets sort of a couple of H3000s for peanuts, one for delays and the other for Micropitch/Diatonic shift/Octaver. The fact that they can also integrate guitar pedals into line levels is a terrific feature. Fast operation with plenty of knobs makes them even better.
-Bricasti and Lexicon 96: you'll hardly get closer to the original 480L and EMT plates than with these two units. And the lex96 does two reverbs at once (and four in DAW mode).
-Empirical Labs Mike-E: an hybrid between the distressor and the fatso, with a clean preamp to boot. The only thing included mostly unheard, as it just came out. But don't ya trust Dave?
-1176 and LA2A: It was decided that no cheaper boxes could substitute these two studio staples so they remained, regardless of the LA2A being almost the most expensive (and simpler) item among all here. But life's too short to suck.
-----------------
The Method
-----------------
Could the X-Desk connect all outboard together and really handle all tasks at hand without struggling? Here's the participant's suggested "mode d'emploi". Hi-End working with a *Mini-Rig*.
TRACKING
-----------------
As mentioned, it was decided that at least 10 mics are simultaneously required to track a band's track foundation for a song, with 4-5 mics for drums (kick, snare, st overheads, room) and the rest for bass, guitars, synth and scratch vocal. So given all the gear finally chosen, the proceedings should go as follows:
Eight of the ten preamps' outputs are connected to the 8 X-Desk's channels, while the 2 mics (pres) than don't need processing are sent direct to A/D, summed into the API 3124 summer section and sent into one of the X-Desk's FX returns (which have access to the CUE) for monitoring. The second FX return gets the lex96 for adding reverb to vocals on the artists' headphones.
On the X-Desk, Comps and EQs are inserted thru the dedicated insert points on the sources that need it at this stage, mostly bass and vocal, maybe some limiting on kick and snare too, and a bit of the EQs might be inserted as well here and there. As the X-Desk is transparent enough to be in the path while tracking, fader riding to tape (post-fader Direct Out) should be preferred to compressing/limiting, just like real engineers do.
All 8 channels are finally sent to the DAW (A/D) via the direct outs, along with the two submixed at the API 3124, which went direct from the API's preamp outputs to the A/D. The DAW records 10 tracks at once.
The channel's st CUE send on each channel on the SSL mixer will be used to send a st mix of the band, while the FX1 send (in prefader) will submix the drums and the FX 2 send (in postfader) will send vocals to the lex96 reverb.
From PTHD or from the converter's low-latency mixer if in native DAWs, each live input will be extracted to be sent to monitoring. For such a task, a Presonus headphone distributor will receive the DAW's clicktrack, the st CUE mix, the drum submix and each independent instrument. All are then sent to the 5-6 musicians' headphones, where each one can individually blend between click+stereo mix+own instrument.
DAW returns go into each of the X-Desk's channels (ALT input) and can be listened to by hitting the ALT switch on the mixer. As we're not mixing yet but tracking and overdubbing, we might use the mixer's bus insert -in sum mode- to inject the st outputs from the DAW to listen to everything else that's already tracked or any other submix. There are still two more st inputs for monitoring in case we need them (EXT and iPod). The X-Desk's talkback resources are heavily used when recording. In use, it dims the speakers and sends the talk mic to the CUE for every musician to hear.
In all, the baby SSL appears to be really well thought of for tracking. Quite a lot possibilities for such a small mixer.
MIXING
------------
After tracking and overdubbing, we'll surely end up with 30-50 (or even 100) tracks into the DAW. As we only got an 8ch desk (with comp+eq per ch), we will send the song's eight KEY TRACKS for OTB treatment, while the rest will be done ITB and summed in stereo stems to be added to the OTB mix (as guys like Toni Maserati do). For that, the ch's CUE (pan+level) in the X-Desk will be used as the secondary inputs ("small fader"), and the two ST Returns will get the Lex96 and the Bricasti.
Which 8 tracks will get primary treatment will vary wildly depending on song and genre, but most of the times it will be something very much like this: Kick, Snare, Bass, EGuit, AGuit, Lead, LVOX, Vox2. So the overall mix will be as follows:
Kick and Snare go to X-Desk's chs 1 and 2, and get, via their insert points, the XRACK's SSL "E" comp+gate+EQ to truly shape the required sounds. Then, their post fader direct outs are used to go into the API 3124+, which will work now as the drum buss submixer, and thus will also get from the DAW the rest of the drumkit in two chs (with HH, overheads and toms). On the API, the available individual fx send from those 4 chs will go to one of the Lex96 reverbs for a dedicated drum reverb (the Lexicon return is on the X-Desk's ST Return 1). The API sums the entire drumkit and its outputs might yet go to a hard hitting compressor at 20:1 (maybe the ELI at NUKE), before returning the mix into the X-Desk's "small fader" (CUE) 1 and 2.
So, we get a comp'd and eq'd kick and drum on the X-Desk's chs 1 and 2 faders, plus the entire bussed drummix thru a compressor just above, on the rotary "small fader" knobs (CUE) 1 and 2, allowing parallel compression and even varying the drummix wideness. The Snare can still get some more reverb with sends FX1 and FX2.
Bass is on ch 3 where we insert the SOC1.1 optical compressor to smooth the notes and one SSL EQ. Guitars show up on ch 4 and 5, where the empirical labs Mike-E comp/sat section might get into play and further EQ from GTQ2 or Portico is inserted at will. On ch 6 there's a Lead sound, either a guitar or synth or some ethereal string, which might need further compression from the Buzz and a touch of the last SSL EQ.
We're now with LVOX and VOX2 in channels 7 and 8. Those get the LA2A and 1176 and the GTQ2's EQ for that Nevesque touch, or the Portico 5032 EQ if the vocal mids need precise tweaking.
As for FX, the two Eventide FX units bring a touch of Micropitch thickening (vocals), or Octaver (bass), or delays for the guitars/vocals. They are fed from the ch's post fader direct outs and come back into the X-Desk via the remaining CUE inputs, or to save those for ITB stems and as the Eventides have a knob for Dry-vs-Wet, they can go as the last element in the insert chain of the desired channel.
Among all X-Desk channels, the FX1 and FX2 knobs send levels to the Bricasti and to the second reverb from the Lex96 (the first was for drums). The Bricasti and Lex96 are returned into the X-Desk's ST Return 1 and 2.
In all, we're having 5 FXs available to the OTB tracks.
On the other hand, all the ITB tracks -which are treated inside the DAW with plugins- are submixed into two or three stereo stems which are then sent to the X-Desks's CUE inputs channels 3-8 for summing along with the rest of the tracks into the SSL.
As the final touch in the mix, the SSL Bus compressor is inserted into the st mix in the X-Desk's master bus, with the option to have it either as a mix insert or as parallel compression instead, if the X-sum switch is pressed.
AUTOMATION and RECALL
------------------------------------------
The affordable and very powerful Euphonix MC Mix and Transport units are used to write fader movements and control plugins and automation into the DAW with ease. DAW automation will be used for all tracks processed ITB and then summed on the SSL. But as the X-Desk doesn't have automation, the primary eight OTB tracks will have to be manually riden if one wants their levels to change in the song. That's not ideal but it's how thousands of hits were made in the past, and the fact is, that being just 8 faders, it's a pretty easy thing to manage.
That said, ITB automation can still be applied on those OTB tracks, so you could actually see it all as the good old SSL's VCA automation system in TRIM mode, where the X-Desk faders can be used to easily set the reference levels, with the small ups-downs automation moves (and mutes) played back from the DAW.
As for Recall, with such a setup it will be pretty fast. It's instant for the ITB tracks into the DAW, whereas for the OTB tracks, the XRACK already has recall built in. For the rest of the outboard and the X-Desk, as it's a compact setup, two simple snapshots from a digital camera will help for the entire recall to last just two minutes.
------------------
Bottom Line
------------------
10 preamps, 8 DI's, 10 compressors, 10 EQS, 5 FXs, 24 A/D/As, headphone distribution, DAW control and the SSL mixer. You can very reasonably think that with so much equipment, it would be better to get a second X-Desk or even a Matrix or an API 1608.. etc. But the truth is that a single one of these little SSL monsters can certainly handle the entire rig without taking a sweat, and on the other hand being so affordable, helps keeping down the cost of the whole setup, allowing great outboard pieces to be included into smaller budget configurations, which wouldn't happen with costlier mixers:
everything in the picture below cost €35k. Besides, it all fits into a pair of flightcases to take it anywhere and it sets up in minutes with a few DB25 cables. The days of Hi-End for the masses have arrived.
There were some older engineers at the pub's table, and looking at the whole picture, they were amazed at what you could do these days with a compact setup as this one, again at such a quality level, for just €35k. Someone commented this setup brings about the same amount of outboard and tools as Bruce Swedien used to do Thriller (if you count what's left, his additional Harrison mixer, as the remainning ITB+summing).
All things said, the new SSL X-Desk mixer was "approved", and unanimously got a strong A+.
Anyway, after many hours and beers, the pub closed and it ended the gear-oriented "Stammtisch". Was lots of fun talk. Rest assured many more will come.
le lien qui va avec:https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/380550-hi-end-equipping-working-ssl-x-desk-long-post-get-some-weissbier.html
En espérant que ça puisse en aider certains...
bin oui quand meme!):Hi-End equipping and working the SSL X-Desk (LONG post, get some Weissbier!)
"Stammtisch" is a german word that defines a group of people that (often regularily) get together in a pub to discuss about certain matters, usually around some sort of beer.
Just after Musikmesse 2009, one of such "Stammtisch" took place by a group of audio engineers, where, among other topics, a discussion about SSL's new mini-mixer took prominent protagonism. Many rounds of Franziskaner Weissbier helped the meeting to reach unparalelled levels of deepness .
What follows is most of what was talked over on that evening about that particular matter.
--------------------
The Challenge
--------------------
With SSL bringing the essential basics of its Superanalogue consoles into the small new X-Desk, introduced at this year's Messe, there was the question whether a "mini hi-end studio" could be built around it, for both tracking, overdubbing and mixing duties, for any genre of music, from Hip-Hop to classical.
Trying to reach that goal around such an small mixer brough to the table discussions about old school recording methods vs DAWs, moving faders vs VCAs, ITB vs OTB... etc. Needless to say, more Franziskaner was soon required ;-P
In the end it was decided as a starting point that to properly complement the X-Desk's eight primary channels in such a hi-end fashion, the right thing would be to include 8 compressors and 8 EQs, as in a big gun SSL/Neve, plus a bus compressor and some FX+Reverbs. Then all agreed that no less than 10 mics would typically be required to track a band/ensemble, so 10 was the round number of preamps to be added to the party. Some DIs should also be included in the package.
-------------
The Gear
-------------
As the intention was to build a "mini hi-end studio", the usual suspects one finds at any facility had to be included: API, 1073/84s, GML Pres+EQs, SSL's bus compressor and crunchy E EQs and comps, 1176s, distressors, LA2A, LA3As, Pultec, EMTs, 480L, H3000s, etc, etc.
The above would have required (at the amount of 10pre+8comp+8eq+fx+bus comp) around €75,000 in outboard alone, which looked a little too much, or even ridiculous, to mate a €2k mixer (not that the SSL couldn't handle it, just that the price gap in outboard_vs_mixer was too big), so it was decided to rather find those pieces that most closely resemble the afformentioned units and offer the most flexibility and best price/features/quality ratio. Consequently, this stuff was chosen by the participants (picture is at the bottom):
-Aurora GTQ2: very close to a 1073 with a nice tracking EQ. Two ch for less than a single Neve.
-Portico 5032s: the preamp on this affordable unit does the clean GML sorta well and it's close to the old Neve when in silk mode. The EQ is not fully parametric but it's good enough to precisely sculpt mids.
-API 3124+mb: legendary API pres and a very useful summing, which will help with busing at mix time. No need to look further.
-SSL XRACK: the real deal, and actually susprinsingly affordable modules compared to anything else on the market. Recallability comes very handy.
-Buzz SOC 1.1: sort of two LA3A with selectable ratio, attack and release. Quite affordable unit too. Euphonic sounding but transparent enough to compress a classical ensemble on the bus.
-Eventide boxes: for just €400 a piece one gets sort of a couple of H3000s for peanuts, one for delays and the other for Micropitch/Diatonic shift/Octaver. The fact that they can also integrate guitar pedals into line levels is a terrific feature. Fast operation with plenty of knobs makes them even better.
-Bricasti and Lexicon 96: you'll hardly get closer to the original 480L and EMT plates than with these two units. And the lex96 does two reverbs at once (and four in DAW mode).
-Empirical Labs Mike-E: an hybrid between the distressor and the fatso, with a clean preamp to boot. The only thing included mostly unheard, as it just came out. But don't ya trust Dave?
-1176 and LA2A: It was decided that no cheaper boxes could substitute these two studio staples so they remained, regardless of the LA2A being almost the most expensive (and simpler) item among all here. But life's too short to suck.
-----------------
The Method
-----------------
Could the X-Desk connect all outboard together and really handle all tasks at hand without struggling? Here's the participant's suggested "mode d'emploi". Hi-End working with a *Mini-Rig*.
TRACKING
-----------------
As mentioned, it was decided that at least 10 mics are simultaneously required to track a band's track foundation for a song, with 4-5 mics for drums (kick, snare, st overheads, room) and the rest for bass, guitars, synth and scratch vocal. So given all the gear finally chosen, the proceedings should go as follows:
Eight of the ten preamps' outputs are connected to the 8 X-Desk's channels, while the 2 mics (pres) than don't need processing are sent direct to A/D, summed into the API 3124 summer section and sent into one of the X-Desk's FX returns (which have access to the CUE) for monitoring. The second FX return gets the lex96 for adding reverb to vocals on the artists' headphones.
On the X-Desk, Comps and EQs are inserted thru the dedicated insert points on the sources that need it at this stage, mostly bass and vocal, maybe some limiting on kick and snare too, and a bit of the EQs might be inserted as well here and there. As the X-Desk is transparent enough to be in the path while tracking, fader riding to tape (post-fader Direct Out) should be preferred to compressing/limiting, just like real engineers do.
All 8 channels are finally sent to the DAW (A/D) via the direct outs, along with the two submixed at the API 3124, which went direct from the API's preamp outputs to the A/D. The DAW records 10 tracks at once.
The channel's st CUE send on each channel on the SSL mixer will be used to send a st mix of the band, while the FX1 send (in prefader) will submix the drums and the FX 2 send (in postfader) will send vocals to the lex96 reverb.
From PTHD or from the converter's low-latency mixer if in native DAWs, each live input will be extracted to be sent to monitoring. For such a task, a Presonus headphone distributor will receive the DAW's clicktrack, the st CUE mix, the drum submix and each independent instrument. All are then sent to the 5-6 musicians' headphones, where each one can individually blend between click+stereo mix+own instrument.
DAW returns go into each of the X-Desk's channels (ALT input) and can be listened to by hitting the ALT switch on the mixer. As we're not mixing yet but tracking and overdubbing, we might use the mixer's bus insert -in sum mode- to inject the st outputs from the DAW to listen to everything else that's already tracked or any other submix. There are still two more st inputs for monitoring in case we need them (EXT and iPod). The X-Desk's talkback resources are heavily used when recording. In use, it dims the speakers and sends the talk mic to the CUE for every musician to hear.
In all, the baby SSL appears to be really well thought of for tracking. Quite a lot possibilities for such a small mixer.
MIXING
------------
After tracking and overdubbing, we'll surely end up with 30-50 (or even 100) tracks into the DAW. As we only got an 8ch desk (with comp+eq per ch), we will send the song's eight KEY TRACKS for OTB treatment, while the rest will be done ITB and summed in stereo stems to be added to the OTB mix (as guys like Toni Maserati do). For that, the ch's CUE (pan+level) in the X-Desk will be used as the secondary inputs ("small fader"), and the two ST Returns will get the Lex96 and the Bricasti.
Which 8 tracks will get primary treatment will vary wildly depending on song and genre, but most of the times it will be something very much like this: Kick, Snare, Bass, EGuit, AGuit, Lead, LVOX, Vox2. So the overall mix will be as follows:
Kick and Snare go to X-Desk's chs 1 and 2, and get, via their insert points, the XRACK's SSL "E" comp+gate+EQ to truly shape the required sounds. Then, their post fader direct outs are used to go into the API 3124+, which will work now as the drum buss submixer, and thus will also get from the DAW the rest of the drumkit in two chs (with HH, overheads and toms). On the API, the available individual fx send from those 4 chs will go to one of the Lex96 reverbs for a dedicated drum reverb (the Lexicon return is on the X-Desk's ST Return 1). The API sums the entire drumkit and its outputs might yet go to a hard hitting compressor at 20:1 (maybe the ELI at NUKE), before returning the mix into the X-Desk's "small fader" (CUE) 1 and 2.
So, we get a comp'd and eq'd kick and drum on the X-Desk's chs 1 and 2 faders, plus the entire bussed drummix thru a compressor just above, on the rotary "small fader" knobs (CUE) 1 and 2, allowing parallel compression and even varying the drummix wideness. The Snare can still get some more reverb with sends FX1 and FX2.
Bass is on ch 3 where we insert the SOC1.1 optical compressor to smooth the notes and one SSL EQ. Guitars show up on ch 4 and 5, where the empirical labs Mike-E comp/sat section might get into play and further EQ from GTQ2 or Portico is inserted at will. On ch 6 there's a Lead sound, either a guitar or synth or some ethereal string, which might need further compression from the Buzz and a touch of the last SSL EQ.
We're now with LVOX and VOX2 in channels 7 and 8. Those get the LA2A and 1176 and the GTQ2's EQ for that Nevesque touch, or the Portico 5032 EQ if the vocal mids need precise tweaking.
As for FX, the two Eventide FX units bring a touch of Micropitch thickening (vocals), or Octaver (bass), or delays for the guitars/vocals. They are fed from the ch's post fader direct outs and come back into the X-Desk via the remaining CUE inputs, or to save those for ITB stems and as the Eventides have a knob for Dry-vs-Wet, they can go as the last element in the insert chain of the desired channel.
Among all X-Desk channels, the FX1 and FX2 knobs send levels to the Bricasti and to the second reverb from the Lex96 (the first was for drums). The Bricasti and Lex96 are returned into the X-Desk's ST Return 1 and 2.
In all, we're having 5 FXs available to the OTB tracks.
On the other hand, all the ITB tracks -which are treated inside the DAW with plugins- are submixed into two or three stereo stems which are then sent to the X-Desks's CUE inputs channels 3-8 for summing along with the rest of the tracks into the SSL.
As the final touch in the mix, the SSL Bus compressor is inserted into the st mix in the X-Desk's master bus, with the option to have it either as a mix insert or as parallel compression instead, if the X-sum switch is pressed.
AUTOMATION and RECALL
------------------------------------------
The affordable and very powerful Euphonix MC Mix and Transport units are used to write fader movements and control plugins and automation into the DAW with ease. DAW automation will be used for all tracks processed ITB and then summed on the SSL. But as the X-Desk doesn't have automation, the primary eight OTB tracks will have to be manually riden if one wants their levels to change in the song. That's not ideal but it's how thousands of hits were made in the past, and the fact is, that being just 8 faders, it's a pretty easy thing to manage.
That said, ITB automation can still be applied on those OTB tracks, so you could actually see it all as the good old SSL's VCA automation system in TRIM mode, where the X-Desk faders can be used to easily set the reference levels, with the small ups-downs automation moves (and mutes) played back from the DAW.
As for Recall, with such a setup it will be pretty fast. It's instant for the ITB tracks into the DAW, whereas for the OTB tracks, the XRACK already has recall built in. For the rest of the outboard and the X-Desk, as it's a compact setup, two simple snapshots from a digital camera will help for the entire recall to last just two minutes.
------------------
Bottom Line
------------------
10 preamps, 8 DI's, 10 compressors, 10 EQS, 5 FXs, 24 A/D/As, headphone distribution, DAW control and the SSL mixer. You can very reasonably think that with so much equipment, it would be better to get a second X-Desk or even a Matrix or an API 1608.. etc. But the truth is that a single one of these little SSL monsters can certainly handle the entire rig without taking a sweat, and on the other hand being so affordable, helps keeping down the cost of the whole setup, allowing great outboard pieces to be included into smaller budget configurations, which wouldn't happen with costlier mixers:
everything in the picture below cost €35k. Besides, it all fits into a pair of flightcases to take it anywhere and it sets up in minutes with a few DB25 cables. The days of Hi-End for the masses have arrived.
There were some older engineers at the pub's table, and looking at the whole picture, they were amazed at what you could do these days with a compact setup as this one, again at such a quality level, for just €35k. Someone commented this setup brings about the same amount of outboard and tools as Bruce Swedien used to do Thriller (if you count what's left, his additional Harrison mixer, as the remainning ITB+summing).
All things said, the new SSL X-Desk mixer was "approved", and unanimously got a strong A+.
Anyway, after many hours and beers, the pub closed and it ended the gear-oriented "Stammtisch". Was lots of fun talk. Rest assured many more will come.
le lien qui va avec:https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/380550-hi-end-equipping-working-ssl-x-desk-long-post-get-some-weissbier.html
En espérant que ça puisse en aider certains...
https://linktr.ee/ArtsyMoods
https://instagram.com/artsymoods/ https://twitter.com/ArtsyMoods https://www.facebook.com/ArtsyMoods/
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